If a safety pilot can sit in the back seat for IFR practice, can an Instructor sit back there VFR?
Sunday, March 7th, 2010 at
3:09 pm
I am currently working on my IFR rating. I have only had three or four hours with an instructor. While scouting for a safety pilot, someone told me that, legally, a safety pilot can just sit in the back… not at the controls. First of all, is this true? Second, does that make it legal for an instructor to sit in the back while a non-licensed person is at the controls? Just wondering:-)
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As a required crew member, no, a Safety pilot cannot be in the back seat unless you are talking about a tandem-seat airplane(seats for and aft as opposed to side by side.)
For the instructor flying with a "non licensed" person, the answer is again,
no, it is not legal.
Even if it were legal, I would question the sanity of any Instructor agreeing to do this. Student pilots have a tendency to do things that leads the Instructor to believe they are out to kill them.
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned free balloon) that is being used for flight instruction unless that aircraft has fully functioning dual controls. However, instrument flight instruction may be given in a single-engine airplane equipped with a single, functioning throwover control wheel in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons when—
(1) The instructor has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and
(2) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately supplements the vision of the safety pilot; and
(3) Except in the case of lighter-than-air aircraft, that aircraft is equipped with fully functioning dual controls. However, simulated instrument flight may be conducted in a single-engine airplane, equipped with a single, functioning, throwover control wheel, in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons, when—
(i) The safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and
(ii) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.
It wouldnt be called safety pilot if all the instructor could do is talk and not have the controls for SAFTEY.
You are not allowed to have a safety pilot VFR conditions with lower than a PPL license and he has to be rated on that aircraft.
If IFR in IMC you have to fly with an instructor as you will not be PIC until you have met the IR currency and thats only if you are instrument rated.
(6 approaches, holding, intercept and tracking in the last 6 months and you have 6 more months to get current or you need to do an Instrument currency check)
Only a stupid instructor would sit in the back while 2 students pilots try crazy things and he watches while they spin to their deaths.
actually it depends. as long as the student meets the qualifications for pilot in command the instructor need not sit up front. we see this quite often flying large corporate jets where the instructor or examiner will sit in the jump seat. if you are an instrument student this won’t work since you’ll likely be accepting an ifr clearance. but were you a private pilot with an instrument ticket and you were working on your comercial or atp cert. you could take a safety pilot up front and the cfii can sit in the back. in such a case, the cfii need not even be medically qualified. for a time i was an faa designated flignt examiner for atp and gulfstreams while i was waiting to get a special issuance from oak city to get my first class medical reissued. i was able to legally instruct and examine all from the jumpseat and unlike some here say it was not an idiotic thing to do at one large per checkride. easiest money i ever made.
Short answer to your question as written: No.
The instructor does not have to be seated at the controls unless also acting as safety pilot. Read the regulation.
A safety pilot may not sit in back (they need to be able to see traffic in front of you), an instructor must sit in front if the other pilot is not rated for the aircraft. Otherwise, he/she is not giving dual instruction and nobody is legally flying the aircraft. Somebody at the controls must be rated for that particular aircraft.
There is actually a scenario where three people may log PIC time though. A commerical-rated multi-engine pilot sits in the left seat under the hood, a safety pilot sits in the right seat scanning for traffic, and a MEI sits in the back seat giving instruction to the multi-rated pilot for use towards his MEI.
There is an equal scenario for single-engine planes too. This one came straight from the mouth of the Long Beach FSDO, so its right.